Revisit Clan Rule #5

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Revisit Clan Rule #5

Post by 25 gp on Thu Aug 10, 2017 9:05 pm

This is a post discussing CC Rule #5. Please read it thoroughly to understand the discussion.

"V - No vulgar, hate speech or crude remarks - This includes general profanity and marginalizing, demeaning or harsh descriptors. Using inappropriate words or trivializing serious diseases in the chat is unnecessary and not welcome."

I think it is something that should be put up for discussion for this cc.

I am making this thread because I am a tad bit annoyed by non-ranked members in the cc telling me to watch my language when I occasionally say shit or something along that line. It is NEVER directed at or towards anyone and is NEVER used in a demeaning or offensive way. Yet, I am still told to watch my language due to "cc rules." Re-reading Rule #5 clearly shows that context is important and it is simply not "all swearing or cursing." It states general profanity, but is worded in a way that it must involve a hateful context.

Runescape has a profanity filter built in to the client. This specific function allows you to choose whether or not you see certain words filtered by Jagex.

In my opinion, using the profanity filter solves this problem of out of context profanity and infringement of speech.

I suggest that we re-visit Rule #5 as a clan. Please leave constructive and thought provoking responses below.
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Re: Revisit Clan Rule #5

Post by Doofus on Thu Aug 10, 2017 9:12 pm

Here's the rule of thumb: If it's not natively used in runescape (i.e. damn, hell, etc) it most likely won't fly in the cc. It doesn't matter whether it's directed at anyone or not. Runescape is meant to be a family friendly game, and we intend to do our part to keep it that way. As someone with a child who is almost old enough to start playing mmo's (under surpervision, of course), I personally would appreciate it if we kept the swearing to an absolute minimum.

Also, Busted Rng is my alt, the non-rank in question here. While I may not be a rank, I have been in the cc for ages. I too questioned the rules in the beginning, but now that I have been a part of this particular community for as long as I have, I have learned that these rules are in place for a reason, and have been for a long time.

So, that being said, I wouldn't expect the rules to change any time soon, but I'm sure they'll take it under advisement. Smile
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Re: Revisit Clan Rule #5

Post by 25 gp on Thu Aug 10, 2017 9:18 pm

@Doofus wrote:Here's the rule of thumb: If it's not natively used in runescape (i.e. damn, hell, etc) it most likely won't fly in the cc. It doesn't matter whether it's directed at anyone or not. Runescape is meant to be a family friendly game, and we intend to do our part to keep it that way. As someone with a child who is almost old enough to start playing mmo's (under surpervision, of course), I personally would appreciate it if we kept the swearing to an absolute minimum.

Also, Busted Rng is my alt, the non-rank in question here. While I may not be a rank, I have been in the cc for ages. I too questioned the rules in the beginning, but now that I have been a part of this particular community for as long as I have, I have learned that these rules are in place for a reason, and have been for a long time.

So, that being said, I wouldn't expect the rules to change any time soon, but I'm sure they'll take it under advisement. Smile

Jagex understands that some people may want a more friendly environment and I am not advocating for hate, rather more free speech. There is a profanity filter in the game toggle-able by the player for a reason. Also, it wasn't you specifically in question here. This has been happening ever since I joined the cc and I have always been a player who respects everyone in the cc. I am not upset mainly because non-ranks are telling me what to do, but rather upset at the restriction itself. Some of the words I say are due to the environment I was raised in, I play this video game for pleasure and fun not for restriction. That's for ironmen Wink
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Re: Revisit Clan Rule #5

Post by Doofus on Thu Aug 10, 2017 9:21 pm

While I understand that swearing may be seen as no big deal in many cases - hell, i swear like a sailor irl if i'm being honest - but taking the time to deliberately type them is a choice. Conversely, if the restriction really bothers you, maybe this just isn't the cc for you? I don't mean that in a rude way, of course, but those of us that do enjoy the cc, do so without the additive of swearing. Cheers! Smile
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Re: Revisit Clan Rule #5

Post by Agi911 on Thu Aug 10, 2017 9:24 pm

As it's been our rules have been to try and keep it acceptable for all ages best we can and just ask people that swear to not (only in either extreme cases or people who do it just to rebel aganst rules after being asked not to has anything done to them like kicking)  

As long as I've been in clan the general response to asking rules be changed is simply saying they aren't up for debate. They've barely changed (mostly to clarify more) and few things have been added  

There was once a time when this rule was considered to be loosened up but it will VERY LIKELY not change.
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Re: Revisit Clan Rule #5

Post by 25 gp on Thu Aug 10, 2017 9:29 pm

@Agi911 wrote:As it's been our rules have been to try and keep it acceptable for all ages best we can and just ask people that swear to not (only in either extreme cases or people who do it just to rebel aganst rules after being asked not to has anything done to them like kicking)  

As long as I've been in clan the general response to asking rules be changed is simply saying they aren't up for debate. They've barely changed (mostly to clarify more) and few things have been added  

There was once a time when this rule was considered to be loosened up but it will VERY LIKELY not change.

Why not let the profanity filter do the work for you. It gives people the option of what they want to see. I see nothing but positives if we were to switch to this policy. It simply allows rule 5 to consist of contextual profanity and hate.
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Re: Revisit Clan Rule #5

Post by Doofus on Thu Aug 10, 2017 9:32 pm

Well, because in all honesty, the jagex filter is crap and just as easily out maneuvered. Add a space or two and maybe a special character, and we're right back to where we are now. The easiest way to make sure our members are protected is to just prevent it entirely.
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Re: Revisit Clan Rule #5

Post by 25 gp on Thu Aug 10, 2017 10:45 pm

@Doofus wrote:Well, because in all honesty, the jagex filter is crap and just as easily out maneuvered. Add a space or two and maybe a special character, and we're right back to where we are now. The easiest way to make sure our members are protected is to just prevent it entirely.
Obviously if they try to go around the filter it is for hateful/spam purposes.
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Re: Revisit Clan Rule #5

Post by OSRS Hailey on Thu Aug 10, 2017 11:47 pm

It's late at night here, but I wanted to reply to the thread before I fell asleep and forgot. Essentially, nobody likes drama. So since much of our CC is made up of members that want to avoid profanity, suddenly starting to allow it would sure shake things up. I swear lots in real life. But I value the clan enough to where I will avoid swearing in the chat. I hope you feel the same!

I'm more than happy to dive further into this rule the next time I am on if you would like more history or clarification.

We do like to evolve into being the best clan we can, so your feedback and suggestions are much appreciated. Unfortunately, due to the nature of some requests, we cannot impliment every suggestion.
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Re: Revisit Clan Rule #5

Post by Andssup on Fri Aug 11, 2017 2:08 am

Why do we have to protect ourselves or our members? The clan is advertised as social, mature and friendly. As long as we're not attacking each other or spamming I don't see the issue with any amount of profanity.

I don't join the CC anymore because last time I was on I said something (I don't remember what) that wasn't even profanity but the rest of the members on at the time got up in arms about it. It'd be nice if we weren't so anal retentive about something that almost everyone here does in every day life any way. Profanity can often be a useful thing to color conversation and has many non malicious purposes.

Edit: If you're thinking of the children... rest assured any 13 year old (as is the age requirement for RS) knows and hears it every day in the public, at home and most definitely online. Just jump in to any game with voice activity and you'll hear them screaming at each other.


Last edited by Andssup on Fri Aug 11, 2017 2:13 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Extra Thoughts)
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Re: Revisit Clan Rule #5

Post by ladybird2 on Fri Aug 11, 2017 9:29 am

I am one of the people who wholeheartedly endorses the rules. Before I joined this clan I joined quite a few others,and the general overall conversation, if you could call it was littered with the one size fits all 'f' word plus the shit/crap that you seem so keen to use, if I see **** (4 stars) to me the filter is still providing my mind with a word I don't want to read. And at worst I'm picturing a pile of poo.
We are a large and versatile clan 24/7 from all over the world, but cannot serve everyone. I absolutely love that non ranks will speak up against language we prefer people not to use, I did before I was ranked, I always have, and its no less their clan than mine. Even better is when those who came into cc believing we were too strict, stay and gradually come to appreciate the level of respect and calm that this particular rule lends to the clan atmosphere. If it didn't work, it would have been changed, and its been debated many times over the time I've been in cc.
Referring to my comment about the previous clans, that gave me ample proof that those who wanted to say whatever they wanted in any way they wanted without challenge would always find a home easily............it just wouldn't be this one.

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Re: Revisit Clan Rule #5

Post by runtellthat4 on Fri Aug 11, 2017 10:46 am

We do have language filters they prefer to be called moderators though... we have found limiting swearing and vulgar language leads to less arguments and tends to help keep disagreements from escalating...we have also found it to help maintain a more relaxed atmosphere...which in turn limits Drama...
Personality I am thrilled when a non mod says language or language plz as when our moderators have to get involved it normally doesnt end well.Our moderators are asked to enforce our rules at their discretion and not debate them in CC.
I also would liked to add that when of our lower ranked members feel comfortable enough to mention language it shows me of the clans acceptance and appreciation of our culture.

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Re: Revisit Clan Rule #5

Post by Enty on Fri Aug 11, 2017 11:33 am

Hi,

every now and then a new discussion pops up regarding the fifth rule,
each time with very similar arguments Neutral
We understand that for some of you using harmless swear words directed at nobody is a way of speaking and communicating, and we understand that you would like to express yourselves to better reflect you,
but unfortunately our answer will remain the same
-
the rule stays.

The basis for this decision is not so much as to protect our youngest clannies, but to keep the chat free of toxicity and trolling, and to encourage clannie to clannie relations on the highest level.
The first exampe I want to give is - The way we appear to players who are seeking a clan chat to make their home.
I can't count how many times newcomers have PM'd me with praise of our chat for being clean and free of trolling.


Maybe a very extreme example, but I wouldn't want to join a clan of which the chat looks anything like this

Secondly - I too have had things happen to me that made me want to lash out in the chat, like getting smited for a regen bracelet at Callisto or waking a thousand miles for a quest just to remember I've forgotten the key item for it.
But always at those moments, before writing a few friendly words to Jagex, I stopped to think on WHY would I even do such a thing. No one can turn back time, and if I just need to vent, surely I can do it in public? Even if I just want you guys to know that this has happened to me and that I am frustrated, I can probably still word it in such a way that it doesn't contain swears?
Doofus very nicely put it:
@Doofus wrote:While I understand that swearing may be seen as no big deal in many cases - hell, i swear like a sailor irl if i'm being honest - but taking the time to deliberately type them is a choice.

Thirdly - Just like Run and Lady before me have said, I think its great when even non ranks attempt to warn their clan mates of inappropriate language. What better way to show that you enjoy the clan and that you would like to keep it as it is for time to come Smile


My few cents building on Hailey's message:
The community of our clan has evolved through time.
We are constantly on the lookout for new members and we welcome everyone with open arms,
but at the same time,
the existing member base, the people that you enjoy playing with, have been shaped by the rules you're arguing against.
I know that it may take some time to get used to not swearing and trolling, and that some of you may even decide to leave,
but those of you who will and have stayed with us are some of the nicest and friendliest people I've ever met online
I wouldn't want to share a cc with anyone else...

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Re: Revisit Clan Rule #5

Post by 25 gp on Sat Aug 12, 2017 9:55 pm

@OSRS Hailey wrote:It's late at night here, but I wanted to reply to the thread before I fell asleep and forgot. Essentially, nobody likes drama. So since much of our CC is made up of members that want to avoid profanity, suddenly starting to allow it would sure shake things up. I swear lots in real life. But I value the clan enough to where I will avoid swearing in the chat. I hope you feel the same!

I'm more than happy to dive further into this rule the next time I am on if you would like more history or clarification.

We do like to evolve into being the best clan we can, so your feedback and suggestions are much appreciated. Unfortunately, due to the nature of some requests, we cannot impliment every suggestion.

Thank you for the reply and reading the suggestion. I understand the rule and why it is in place, but cannot help and think that the profanity filter does provide the "protection" people want. I will try and watch my language in the chat, but will not tolerate non-ranks continual pointing out a minor slip up here and there especially if its not directed towards anyone. I do not login to play a game to have a handful of people trying to kiss a$$ in a clan to try and get rank at the expense of my pleasure and fulfillment of the game. Please take this with a grain of salt and realize that I am a part of this clan for a reason and it has been my happy home for some time.
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Re: Revisit Clan Rule #5

Post by Greybird on Sun Aug 13, 2017 12:06 am

You ask for constructive responses and that's how you retort?

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Re: Revisit Clan Rule #5

Post by ladybird2 on Sun Aug 13, 2017 6:52 am

I have just deleted a long reply !!!!!!!!!!! at the end of the day I'm speechless Rolling Eyes

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Re: Revisit Clan Rule #5

Post by Active Faith on Sun Aug 13, 2017 1:21 pm

I debated on adding my 2 cents to this post, and felt I might as well. First off, every time I come and check this site, I see the clan rules clearly stated. This shows they are dedicated to them, and want them followed by all new and current members. This CC doesn't just 'talk the talk" but "walks the walk". Very respected members of this CC have replied to this discussion, and given their time to explain why the rule is in place. Countries can't function without laws, otherwise it would be total chaos. Same applies to this CC. We have a massive amount of members, and if rules weren't set in stone, it would be truly chaotic. Seeing all these responses actually makes me feel even better being apart of this clan. It all comes down to priorities man.

I'm thankful I've met so many great people in this CC. Not being able to cuss is a small price to pay for such a great reward. If it isn't worth it to you, there are countless CC's with looser rules...but none as great as this one.

Hope to see you all in chat, let me know if I can help in any way!
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Re: Revisit Clan Rule #5

Post by 25 gp on Mon Aug 14, 2017 3:20 pm

According to today, the cc allows the term "damn" as confirmed by cc ranks.
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Re: Revisit Clan Rule #5

Post by runtellthat4 on Mon Aug 14, 2017 4:49 pm

All this rage because a newcomer said language....and still you thought necessary to bring up in chat today and argue with mods creating a disturbance...you are the kinda of player that caused us to have strict language restrictions in the 1st place...simply because as I mentioned earlier some can never let go...Luckily I logged in towards the end.Did you get idea from my warning this morning this nonsense has to stop..everyone else seemed to get it.

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Re: Revisit Clan Rule #5

Post by Andssup on Mon Aug 14, 2017 5:23 pm

"According to today, the cc allows the term "damn" as confirmed by cc ranks."

That right there is exactly why this discussion came up. There is hundreds of so called swear words and we're so strict on this rule that 'damn' has to even come in to question. Honestly... this community can no longer call itself mature.

@Active Faith can you point me towards one of your so called looser CC's with a chat that isn't filled with easily googled questions and level up notifications where I can freely say 'damn' or 'darn' or some other non malicious 'swear word' without fear of ridicule?
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